Dose the drug rip




	Dose the drug rip-off really make sense? JesseW 16 posts 31-Aug-05 9:39 AM Well I’m back form Keddie, I had a very nice trip and I’m glad I went, It changed my outlook on the whole thing. I met some real nice Locals and visited some real interesting old places. I got a lot of photo and video also. I have to admit at first I was totally for the whole drug rip-off thing but after being there I just don’t feel that is what happened. I plan on sharing my trip with all of you I just need to figure out how to word everything. In the mean time if you have questions please ask Thanks Jesse New Guest Guest 0 post 31-Aug-05 12:11 PM Hi Jesse - I have a question I would like to ask since you were just there in Keddie. You also said a little bit about what your feelings were about the drug thing, which I thought was interesting. Do you think that maybe the police botched their investigation? From the searches I did on the internet, it looks like all the towns around that area are small. I would think that in a small town people would talk more and leak information to the police. I would think in a smaller town word would get around because people would tend to be in much smaller "groups" (for lack of a better word). We all know that police botch things up, just look at OJ or Jon Benet Ramsey cases for examples. I am in the Los Angeles area and the LAPD screw stuff up frequently, so I know this stuff happens. Do you think maybe the killings were random? That the killers just picked that cabin, say maybe they saw the mother there alone with small kids and felt she was a good mark. Then were suprised when the teenagers came in later that evening? JesseW 17 posts 31-Aug-05 12:36 PM New user, Hello and thanks for the questions. Quincy is a very small town indeed, Keddie is not even a town but more like a campground with cabins, an old lodge, and an old dorm. As of today Keddie has 5 cabins occupied according to the owners son whom is one of the residance. I really dont feel this is random beacuse after walking through Keddie the cabin was right in the middle of the Loop.Imean right in the middle with cabins on each side, behind, and cabin 28 faced the main road that led you into Keddie. I really want to post my ideo of me driving through. alot of people knew and rememberd the boys and Tina. I think the police were not quilified to hanedl a case like this and totally screwed it up. I hope this helps let m eknow if you have more questions. If you want pictures e-mail me at rms884@yahoo.com Thanks Jesse Anon Guest 0 post 31-Aug-05 12:44 PM Jesse - I want to caution you not to disregard the notion of the drug ripoff to quickly, based on your first walk through in Plumas County. I lived there a long time and during the late 70's, 80' and even now, drugs are a very important part of the culture there. Anon JesseW 19 posts 31-Aug-05 12:56 PM Anon, I have not disregaurded it, I just dont see how crhonic pot users came up clean in an audtopsy. justwondering 3 posts 01-Sep-05 8:59 AM I do have to agree that I know that Dana and John smoked pot that is strange that the test came back clean, but i dont think they were any different then the rest of us parting was just the thing to do. I still have my doubts that the murders had connection with a drug rip off. I have questions about craigs beaten (I'm not saying it didnt happened craig ) but whoever killed this family didnt have a heart or soul so why would they spare craigs life or did craig tell them who did it to spare his. I cant remember if the beaten happened after the murders or before either way why did they spare craigs life? Anon Guest 0 post 01-Sep-05 3:02 PM Craig - what kinda drugs were ripped off and can you describe the area in E.Quincy where it happened? Salem Anon Guest 0 post 01-Sep-05 4:12 PM Craig - thanks for the description. I know the area you are talking about in E.Quincy. I lived by there for a short amount of time and had friends that lived in the vicinity. Again - what kind of drugs? My thought is that this was more than pot. Am I right? Salem Anon Guest 0 post 03-Sep-05 9:23 AM How many sheets of acid? And were the bags of marijuana $25-30 bags or big bags? I think the drugs involved were enough to upset someone. But I have to say, I'm not convinced it was enough to make some one act the way they did in that cabin. If it was only retaliation for the drug ripoff, wouldn't they have just shot them or something? Like beating you up Craig. Wouldn't they have just done something like that and not the hideous things that were reported? That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. People get shot over drugs and money all the time. But not like Keddie. Salem JesseW 22 posts 03-Sep-05 9:32 AM I just cant help but think this whole thing revolved around Tina, The boys were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Anon Guest 0 post 03-Sep-05 9:44 AM Jesse - you may be right. If so, then it means a "violent sex predator" was in the area. This person could have met the boys at Oakland Camp, saw them leave, and offered them a ride. Or, he could have already been at the cabin when the boys showed up. I can not remember if the investigators ever identified who gave the boys a ride home that night. If they did though, I don't think it became public knowledge, because I don't remember hearing about it. Quincy was a small town. Hitchhiking from Oakland Camp to Keddie, would (in my best estimates) give you about a 75% chance of being picked up by a local. More of a chance to be picked up by a stranger if the boys were still hitchhiking when they reached the highway. Or if a local gave them a ride to the highway and left them there. On one route, Quincy would have been a left hand turn at the highway and Keddie a right hand turn. Salem Anonymous Guest 0 post 03-Sep-05 10:56 AM Hello Everyone, I can understand some of you not buying the drug ripoff as the motive here. I also have reservations about that. But according to Craig he was involved in a drug ripoff. Josh Hancock stated on the last board that sheets of acid were in fact stolen. Craig states that the drugs were stolen from Marty. And when watching Josh's film you'd have to come to the conclusion that Marty and Bo were the main suspects in this case... A question for all of you, if kidnapping Tina was the motive here, why spend so much time torturing the other 3 victims? Why bother with such torture and brutality over what was supposedly an extended period of time? Why "overkill?" Anon Guest 0 post 03-Sep-05 11:37 AM Anonymous - I agree with you. It was overkill, in my mind, especially for a drug ripoff. I believe the drug ripoff happened. I believe it was probably the reason for Craig's getting beaten. But I am doubtful it was the reason for the murders. I don't know who Marty and Bo are (were). But the nature of the crimes indicates whoever did it, was very angry, psychopathic, and sadistic. I also believe whoever did it, has committed other crimes. It would be nice to have info on the DNA sample. I am going to order the film. I haven't watched it yet. Salem Anonymous Guest 0 post 03-Sep-05 1:22 PM In my opinion I don't think the drugs were the main thing either. maybe marty and Bo were in there to get at Sue and Tina. Then the boys came home and saw it and all hell broke loose considering the hatred marty had towards Johnny. JesseW 23 posts 03-Sep-05 1:57 PM I’m thinking someone in the area probably Marty or Bo was after Tina. Sue and the others happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. another thing from what I have gathered so far it is not a fact that the victims were in fact tortured for any length of time. This is the cause of death from the autopsy reports. Glenna Sharp Cause of death; multiple stab wounds to the upper portion of her chest. John Sharp multiple stab wounds around the neck. Dana Wingate Sever blunt force trauma to the head and strangulation. These wounds could have happened in a matter of moments. I really don’t think the suspects hung around. However I do think they might have went back to do some cover up and hide there true motive; Kidnapping Tina. Keddie RR 75 posts 03-Sep-05 11:15 PM Hay maybe those guys Marty and Bo where smart enough to pull off a crime in the drug world say something like their stash was stolen and then victimize a family to cover their asses to tell their “bosses” the teenagers stole my drugs ????? But then they took care of it. Incompertus Guest 0 post 04-Sep-05 6:51 AM Craig has spent almost twenty-five years absolutely convinced that he knows the nature behind the killings. I do not think he is likely to be swayed by any argument we make which attacks his pet theory. Besides, that would take the emphasis off of him... god forbid. :-) Anonymous Guest 0 post 04-Sep-05 7:24 AM The person/people who inflicted the wounds described by JesseW were not trained combat soldiers. More likely, they had never killed before. They may have fantasized about it... what it would be like... for years. Each victim had their own specific type of wound. As if the killer were experimenting with methods of killing. Or with multiple killers, each killer satisfying their own sadistic fantasies. Either the killer was indeed after Tina (to satisfy a completely different type of fantasy) and the others were simply playthings until she arrived, or the killings in the cabin were the main objective and she was an unplanned afterthought. Either way, fun was the driving force... not revenge. JesseW 25 posts 04-Sep-05 8:24 AM Craig, Just because a person dose not have a history of being a sex predator dose not mean thay are not one. especially in a small town like that I’m sure those kinds of things are swept under the run more often then not. Tina and Sue were not attractive means nothing at all sex predators seek easy targets and are not always after super models. If this did have to do with drugs being ripped off then why take Tina and not just tie her up and kill her there. I still believe she was the key piece of evidence so they had to take her away. how come one minute you don’t remember Tina and then the next you can describe her down to her nose? and last, Do we know for sure Justin did stay the night or was he just planted there to keep the little ones distracted while Tina was kidnapped and things went wrong from there? Anon Guest 0 post 04-Sep-05 8:58 AM Okay - we have the drug ripoff. What if Marty and Bo did commit the murders and were on acid at the time? Could explain some things. However, while this is plausible, it doesn't quite fit, because of the "no blood outside" and no noise issue. If it was acid that made the murderers act out, I don't think they would have had the sense to be careful (I could be wrong here, I'm not an expert on the drug's effect). What about meth though? Were Marty & Bo meth users? There was (still is) a lot of meth in the area at the time. I understand meth can make you pretty crazy if you use it for awhile. Predator theory - I've been looking around the web for any info on other crimes that show this same pattern. So far, no luck. The only thing I see is the Idaho incident, but from everything I read, Duncan was incarcerated at the time of the Keddie murders. There was a guy and his girlfriend kidnapping young women in the late 70's but they were busted prior to Keddie (1980). I am convinced that whoever did this, has committed previous crimes and after crimes. Maybe not as severe. I'm not discounting the drug theory at this point. But I do believe this event goes further than just retaliation for a drug rip off, that in my best calculations, based on what Craig said, had a street value of about $5,000. What was $5,000 worth in 1981? Now it sounds like change, but in 1981, in Plumas County, $5,000 was quite a bit of money. Enough money to really upset someone. And in Plumas County, there were not a lot of options for making $5,000 easily. Okay I'm rambling. I'm going to think about this some more. Salem Anonymous Guest 0 post 04-Sep-05 9:20 AM Justin stayed the night alot at the house. He was friends with one of the younger sharp boys. Valley Flyer 14 posts 04-Sep-05 4:33 PM Very interesting thread here. Some of you might have some intel slightly wrong, but the general idea is a good one. Some comments: 1: Jesse's ideas are a little provocative, and at this time may not exactly lead us to an ID. Other things have to be cleared up first. That said, I have always felt that the taking of Tina is a huge sticking point. Craig and I have discussed the taking, and right now we don't completely agree as to how long Tina lived. I feel she lived much longer than a few days. 2: Josh may have said something about the drugs, but he did not say where that intel came from. If indeed he got that from Craig, it is single source, and right now is not something you can take to the bank. 3: If this is not something extremely personal, and there are no real hints of that, then I have always seen drug use by the perps at the time as being very likely. 4: Gerald and Charlene were rolled up in Omaha on Dec. 5, 1980. But there is an unsolved double involving a couple who may have had contact with them. It's supposed to be a fairly vicious crime. 5: How long they were there and who showed up and when is still very hazy. It's my feeling that they were there a minimum of three hours. But which three hours? 6: There doesn't seem to be ANY evidence that Marty was involved in the drug house. It could be slightly misleading to say that the drugs were "his." That really needs to be cleared up. 7: See a previous post of mine about "familiarity". Didn't Marty try at least twice THAT DAY to get Sue to go to the bar that night as a companion for Bo? Yet seemingly, Ricky and Greg DID NOT recognize who was in the cabin that night? Kinda hard to keep a nine year old and a five year from blurting something out, sometime. 8: Why take Tina, and leave Justin, Ricky and Greg? If this was planned out so well, and the perps had good knowledge of the cabin, they WOULD have known of the presence of at least Ricky and Greg. Were they that wacked that they didn't know they were there? Or, were they non-locals who knew that they would not be identified? Item: No one has ever stated that Bo had been anywhere near the cabin, and the Sharps had only been there about six months. At this time, barring further revelations, I feel that the rip-off did occur, and that it could have been a good reason for what happened. Think about what would have happened if Johnny or Dana was caught with a sheet or one of those bags. All they would have to do is tell the truth, and whoever was doing the real dealing was looking at some good time, like about 25 years. To those of us who think rationally, that sounds real dumb, doing a triple to avoid prosecution on distribution charges. But these kind of scum wern't thinking rationally when they first started dealing. Look at the reports of bad stuff going around in the area at that time. Those type don't give a damn about human life. keep up the discussion, it's getting more interesting with every post.. JesseW 27 posts 04-Sep-05 5:26 PM Marty Did try to get Sue out of the house to be Bo's conpanion according to Marty's Ex wife in the interview conducted by Josh. Why take Tin you ask, Im thinking because she was the only peice of evidance that could Id the Killers, If in fact she was being molested. This means she couls have been dead befor they took her from the cabin, I think they just needed to get her away from the scene because her body could tie them to the crime. as for Justin and Rickey,like I said I dont think anyone was supposed to die in the first place, however it did happen and they were not going to enter that bedroom beacuse if they did Justin would have to vanish also. Salem Guest 0 post 04-Sep-05 6:38 PM Valley Flyer - Thanks for the additional input. Do you have any other information about the couple involved in the double murder? I would like to try to research it, if possible. I have been racking my brain trying to remember just who lived at the drug house. I never visited the house, but like I said earlier, I had friends in that neighbor who were familiar with the house. Your point about the jail/prison time is a very good one. I was only thinking about the money. Again, I am waiting for a copy of the film, so bear with me here. I find it very interesting that Marty was trying to get Sue out of the house and that he wanted Sue to be Bo's "date." Were Marty and Bo hotheads? Could Sue's rejection of Bo have upset him? It has been documented that some personalities can be come quite violent over rejection. As for Tina - I don't think she was the primary target. I think she woke up and came out of the room? Depending on the motive and how smart the perps were, Tina could be a ploy to confuse what happened. Okay how about this, is it possible Marty and Bo lined someone up to "talk" to the boys, and that it wasn't actually Marty and Bo, but some goons they hired or ...... Salem Keddie RR 81 posts 06-Sep-05 7:05 AM Craig you said that “fact that there was little or no blood outside the cabin” what if the killer was their twice once to do the crimes then shortly returned to try to cover things up ? Maybe that’s when the boys returned and John was trying to save his mother and that boys just walked into the crimes? JesseW 29 posts 06-Sep-05 9:47 AM David, ihave a stron feeling that could be exactly what happened Zeus's Mom Guest 0 post 06-Sep-05 2:24 PM "ya all keep talking about this in here as im reading everything and think your going in the right direction but i have always said i dont want it to go in this direction and I MEAN IT TOO WHEN I SAY THAT AND YA ALL NEED TO REALIZE THAT." I don't understand your statement. Conversations are heading in the right direction, but you don't want to go there... Why? It's an ugly thought, but bad, sick, horrible things happen. Why can't we insinuate that maybe Marty or Bo might have been under the influence and might have been angry that Bo couldn't find a date. Who's to say they didn't go over there with the intentions of "getting some action" and ended up the way that it did. Removing young Tina's body would remove a lot of evidence and DNA. If this was all about the "rip off". Why would they take Tina's body from the crime scene it makes no sense. Then again what does make sense. And, how could three adults and a young girl all be attached and killed at the same time with out anyone hearing. I read a theory that maybe the boys walked in on the aftermath of Sue and Tina's murders... Wrong place at the wrong time. Guest 1 post 06-Sep-05 9:11 PM There has been a lot of really good speculation in this thread. Might I be unpopular and add a few more ideas? - What if the motive was 2 fold? Maybe someone wanted Tina and needed a way to get to her. Maybe the drug rip off was an excuse for the violence and a means to an end for someone. Maybe Bo and Marty were involved. Maybe someone turned over on the boys to them. Maybe that someone was the third person, someone who Tina could identify. Maybe Tina was allowed to take her shoebox (something apparently dear to her) because one of the abductors "cared" about her. Okay, I am only throwing out possibilities. Looking forward to reading more possibilities. Anon Guest 0 post 06-Sep-05 9:29 PM There's something that feels right about the last post. Maybe Marty and Bo were involved in that they got someone else to do the work for them. And that someone was the one who ratted out the boys and that someone offered to help make the boys talk or give back the drugs and that someone was someone who had been trying to get close to Sue or Tina for awhile. Who's hanging out there in the shadows guys? Craig & Valley - what do you think? It there someone who gets looked at and then passed over for one reason or another? Someone who was trying to get close to Sue or the boys that they were not really comfortable with and kept brushing off. You know what I mean....that person who keeps showing up when you just wish they would go away! Salem JesseW 33 posts 07-Sep-05 1:23 PM Maby someone had been molesting Tina and she told on them thats why she had to die along with Sue New Guest Guest 0 post 07-Sep-05 2:33 PM That is an excellent point and something to really consider and ponder over. I am going to keep all this stuff in mind when I watch the film. Guest Guest 0 post 07-Sep-05 3:23 PM You actually have an interesting point. Marty's wife says in the video that her daughter ran away from home because she was "scared to death of Marty." I got a distinct feeling that she was implying that her daughter was being molested. Maybe once she was gone, his next victim was Tina. serialmom13m 5 posts 07-Sep-05 5:03 PM I am so glad to see the motive of the murders shift off of the "drug rip off". I can't explain, but I really really feel that was not the reason. I think (almost) everyone has a good ideas for the motive. As some have said sex predator, why not?? Someone could've been trying to get to Tina or Sue sex predator isn't CHILD ONLY, older women have been victims too. I feel the only drug related part is the killers were on drugs!!!!!!!!!! JesseW 35 posts 07-Sep-05 5:42 PM Guest, you took the words right out of my mouth, I was holding out to bring this up but thank you for noticing.I wounder if Marty's step daughter could be contacted Keddie RR 91 posts 07-Sep-05 6:14 PM Jessie ,I have a feeling she was on the last website and got her feelings hurt ,on things that where said about her brother … I don’t know for sure but just a feeling … her brothers is loved , I am willing to bet. K inquisitive-mind 5 posts 07-Sep-05 6:32 PM I have posted this in another thread but feel it fits here. maybe someone in the area was fixated on Sue, and not Tina. Maybe Dana and John came home at the wrong time. Maybe Tina came home last and a small voice ask that she be spared. Maybe she was spared in the house to appease the child and taken elsewhere to be murdered. I'm just throwing out more posibilities. Zeus's Mom Guest 0 post 08-Sep-05 9:47 AM I keep playing back every thing that Marty's ex-wife said in the video. A lot of information to process, I think she should be contacted again. I think we are very close to hitting the nail on the head. Justin was also affaid of Marty, I think he threatened him the day after the murders not to say anything. Valley Flyer 16 posts 08-Sep-05 12:17 PM I just looked at a part of the video again and I could think of several more questions. Gotta go to work now, but here's a couple. Whose shoes are in the crime scene? was it that violent? or were Johnny and Dana already there? What the hell was Marty burning at 2am? Also, people at the bar were suspicious of them, so they shure should remember when they left, right? Justin is not too believable right now, that bit about Love Boat is really off the wall. At least the two sketches show distinctly different features. But I sure don't get the bit about switching the bottom halfs. JesseW 36 posts 08-Sep-05 2:47 PM Vally, I have always woundered my self if the Crime scene was as Vilont as the rumors going around made it out to be. Im not saying it was not bad but I have even heard that they were cut into pecies and I know thats not true. and good point what was marty burning? and why did he have to go back to Keddie? Keddie RR 95 posts 08-Sep-05 11:06 PM What proof ??? LOL JesseW 43 posts 19-Sep-05 9:44 AM Ok Craig, If they were the primary targed why was Tina missing and no one else? Why not just follow John and Dana and take them somewere else were less people are and kill them? Last Edited: by JesseW on 2005-09-23 07:21:04.013 Keddie RR 118 posts 22-Sep-05 7:28 AM I think its possible that Sue just opened the door , when punks came looking for the teenage boys . I don’t think Sue or Tina was the main target , probity Tina just woke from her sleep into a real nightmare most likely the killers didn’t know of the boys asleep in the back room I would think that Tina was used a hostage to get the killers out of the area , then after she was murdered because she knew everything . JesseW 46 posts 22-Sep-05 10:24 AM Very Possiable, I did read somewhere and I dont remember where, That tinas balnket was found in the hall way indicating that she awoke and walked out into the crime as it was happening. Last Edited: by JesseW on 2005-09-23 07:21:30.2 Keddie RR 127 posts 22-Sep-05 1:04 PM If Tina’s girlfriends , who where just little girls at the time could take the time to talk to the FBI , then why couldn’t Craig , who was a grown man at the age of 21 years old ? I don’t buy his BuLLShit drug story at all Valley Flyer 29 posts 23-Sep-05 2:12 AM Folks, when is this going to stop. If you want to impeach what Craig says, get some facts to support your argument. The qwuestion of Tina's taking is still on the table. I have always felt that there was something unanswered about the taking. It's still not answered. David, when you say maybe the killers didn't know that Ricky and Greg were there, you are almost automatically ruling out Marty and Bo. They couldn't have not known about them. Also, one of the reasons Sue didn't want to go to the bar was that she was having a sleepover for the kids. Justin was there. Marty didn't know that?? Jesse, when you say that Tina's blanket was found in the hallway, all that means is that she was in that area. I don't know for sure if she was even in the house all night. Also, it could have been dropped as she was being taken away. Was she even in the playhouse? If she needed her jacket due to the overnight temp, why not let her take her blanket also? I have to hit the hay now, I just thought of something, and boy, is it off the wall TOP

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